1983 The Smiths Troy Tate Rare Mix (FLAC)

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DavidA

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Post 03-Sep-2006 15:34

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Lastgang has a lot more info on this. He mentioned that he had the Rough Trade Demos in good quality, plus also talked about the source for all the Troy Tate versions.
Batna, whether his Rough Trade Demos are the same as the ones from the Fighting Cocks bootleg, I dunno.
Has anyone noticed that Reel Around The Fountain from the Rarities bootleg sounds different from all of these? Listen to percussion at the beginning.
Anyway, with all these threads running concurrently I'm going to try and make things a bit more organised. I'll dig out a Wiki and add it to this site so that we can compare Porter, Peel, Tate 1, Tate 2, Tate 3, Rough Trade Demos with slightly less confusion. I'll try and get that done soon, along with my own notes.
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pjlm

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Post 10-Sep-2006 17:39 (after 7 days)

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Hello!
Stephane from www.PassionsJustLikeMine.com here. I have just downloaded these new Troy Tate outtakes and am trying to make sense of all the versions out there. After a quick run-through, these seem to me like better, clearer versions of the same mixes distributed as 'remixed' and referred to as internet-only on "Passions Just Like Mine". Am I right? Am I wrong? Do i need to make any corrections to the info on the webpage?
I think we all agree that these are different to what i refer to as 'the core'. To me they sound like very much like the versions circulated on the internet as 'remixed', except for the fact that they sound much clearer. Now if there are subtle differences between these new versions and the 'remixed' ones, it's very difficult to tell, given the bad quality of the previously circulated 'remixed' versions.
Is there a different way i should organise the information? Can anyone here with good ears put all the information, particularly what has been brought up by SweetFA, in a clear and understandable format? I would particularly want to add information about the speed-corrected versions of the core tracks. Any significant input will be clearly credited on "Passions Just Like Mine".
Should we refer to the 'core' tracks as 'early mixes' (in which we have the common bootleg mixes and speed-corrected ones) and these as 'later mixes' ? Or should we give a rundown by song title, version thereof and source?
Any input will be greatly appreciated!
thanks,
Stephane
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pjlm

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Post 10-Sep-2006 17:41 (after 1 minute)

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... oh and I forgot...
To view what's already on www.PassionsJustLikeMine.com just click on 'Unofficial releases', then 'Smiths bootlegs discography' then 'Troy Tate sessions' in the audio section.
thanks!
Stephane
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DavidA

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Post 10-Sep-2006 20:35 (after 2 hours 53 minutes)

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Hi Stephane,
I too am trying to get my head around these versions. I have been speaking about them with Simon Goddard who wrote Songs That Saved Your Life and has heard the final Troy Tate album. I'm hoping I can persuade him to cast his ears over the various versions floating around and try and make sense of them for me.
My current thinking is that the Rare Mix (this torrent) is the final Troy Tate album. Previous versions, such as 'The Hand That Rocks The Cradle' bootleg and the 'Rough Trade Demos' are likely to be pre-final mixes. At the moment I'm finding it hard to work out just how many pre-final mixes are floating around.
I made a wiki to try and organise my notes. Please feel free to add anything you spot.
http://www.smithstorrents.co.uk/wiki
David
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DavidA

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Post 10-Sep-2006 20:51 (after 15 minutes)

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Just to try and keep things together, for further discussion on the Troy Tate mixes, go to this message. Having so many message threads is getting confusing!
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batnaMMV

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Post 10-Sep-2006 21:20 (after 29 minutes)

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Hello!
Stephane from www.PassionsJustLikeMine.com here. I have just downloaded these new Troy Tate outtakes and am trying to make sense of all the versions out there. After a quick run-through, these seem to me like better, clearer versions of the same mixes distributed as 'remixed' and referred to as internet-only on "Passions Just Like Mine". Am I right? Am I wrong? Do i need to make any corrections to the info on the webpage?
I think we all agree that these are different to what i refer to as 'the core'. To me they sound like very much like the versions circulated on the internet as 'remixed', except for the fact that they sound much clearer. Now if there are subtle differences between these new versions and the 'remixed' ones, it's very difficult to tell, given the bad quality of the previously circulated 'remixed' versions.
Is there a different way i should organise the information? Can anyone here with good ears put all the information, particularly what has been brought up by SweetFA, in a clear and understandable format? I would particularly want to add information about the speed-corrected versions of the core tracks. Any significant input will be clearly credited on "Passions Just Like Mine".
Should we refer to the 'core' tracks as 'early mixes' (in which we have the common bootleg mixes and speed-corrected ones) and these as 'later mixes' ? Or should we give a rundown by song title, version thereof and source?
Any input will be greatly appreciated!
thanks,
Stephane
Hi Stephane,
Welcome to the site, it's great to see you on here :D
As there appear to be so many variations of each song (eg. early mix, demos, later mix) the wiki has been divided into a section for each song. Although we have mentioned the various bootlegs to document what is in circulation at the moment. These 'remixed' versions seem to be a complete set of finished mixes, you refer to 6 rarer tracks (available on Troy Hands/Reel Around The Fountain/Wonderful Woman) which have also been included here as part of this set. What makes understanding these tracks difficult is way the bootlegs have been described. The "core" tracks seem now to be unfinished demos, although we were led to believe they were the rejected album!
On your site, when you refer to the tracks available on the Internet, are you referring to other demos or these remixed tracks or both?
By the way, you know me as "Nigel S" on pjlm, I have sent you info previously for your site!
EDIT: Sorry David, didn't see your last post above!
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pjlm

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Post 15-Sep-2006 17:04 (after 4 days)

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Hello!
I've just sent my lengthy view of the Troy Tate mixes to the discussion forum here. I'm waiting for some feedback.
cheers,
Stephane
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rfranzke

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Post 20-Sep-2006 21:01 (after 5 days)

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robbo, would there be any way to get this in 24/96 wav's? i know the dat probably can't do that, but there has to be some method available. i'm wondering because i'm finally set up to deal with 24/192 and everything leading up to that.
if not, don't worry. THIS is enough, cheers!
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robertzombie

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Post 15-Oct-2006 16:40 (after 24 days)

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Any artwork for this?
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shearer9uk

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Post 30-Oct-2006 17:05 (after 15 days)

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Nice one....Love Jeane.
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shearer9uk

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Post 30-Oct-2006 22:44 (after 5 hours)

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Seeding this....be on my hd at least a week
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Angelic

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Post 05-Nov-2006 08:15 (after 5 days)

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Any artwork for this?
If this counts as artwork :P

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mjrico

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Post 24-Nov-2006 22:16 (after 19 days)

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Grrreeeeeat Thank you so much!!! :-)
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SouthpawGlamour

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Post 02-Feb-2007 16:11 (after 2 months 7 days)

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Hello, I am new, where is the torrent file?
THE SMITHS
Troy Tate Demos (Rare Mix)
Source: SBD > Cass > ? > DAT > M-Audio 24/96 > Adobe Audition > FLAC
01. Reel Around the Fountain
02. You've Got Everything Now
03. Miserable Lie
04. Pretty Girls Make Graves
05. Accept Yourself
06. The Hand that Rocks the Cradle
07. Handsome Devil
08. Wonderful Woman
09. Hand in Glove
10. What Difference Does It Make?
11. Jeanne
12. I Don't Owe You Anything
13. Suffer Little Children
Time: 53:11
Torrent created by RTR on 01 Sep 06.
As promised a while back, here's the Troy Tate rare mix. These are different from the common Troy Tate Sessions that are on about a dozen widely circulated bootlegs. About 6 of these tracks have shown up on a couple bootlegs (Wonderful Woman and Reel Around the Fountain). Here is the complete set of them that I acquired on DAT in a trade about 10 years ago.
------------------------------
From Passionsjustlikemine.com:
The Troy Tate sessions are the scrapped 1983 recordings for the Smiths' debut album. Unsatisfied with the work of Troy Tate as a producer, the Smiths re-recorded their debut with producer John Porter. Unfinished versions of the shelved Tate recordings have been in circulation on various bootlegs. Most of them have two versions, some three, in circulation. Here is a rundown of the songs in circulation and a list of bootlegs that include them.
Most bootlegs include the same tracks, referred hereafter as the core. These are the best versions out there, the closest to releasable versions.
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 1)
- You've Got Everything Now (version 1)
- Miserable Lie (version 1)
- These Things Take Time (version 1)
- Wonderful Woman (version 1)
- Handsome Devil (version 1)
- Hand In Glove (version 1)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 1)
- I Don't Owe You Anything (version 1)
- Suffer Little Children (version 1)
- Pretty Girls Make Graves (version 1)
- Jeane (version 1)
The following tracks are found on fewer bootlegs
- Accept Yourself (version 1)
- The Hand That Rocks The Cradle (version 1)
- Miserable Lie (version 2)
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 2)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 2)
- Wonderful Woman (version 2)
These are available on the internet, but not on manufactured or widespread bootleg cd yet. They are labeled as 'remixed' but actually sound rougher than the versions from the core above.
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 3; perhaps same as version 2)
- You've Got Everything Now (version 2)
- Miserable Lie (version 3; perhaps same as version 2)
- The Hand That Rocks The Cradle (version 2; perhaps same as version 1)
- Wonderful Woman (version 3)
- Handsome Devil (version 2)
- Hand In Glove (version 2)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 2)
- I Don't Owe You Anything (version 2)
- Suffer Little Children (version 2)
- Pretty Girls Make Graves (version 2)
- Jeane (version 2)
In short, the completist will want any of the following bootlegs featuring the core described above (for example "The Cradle Snatchers" or "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle"), and will find the missing tracks from the second section on "Reel Around The Fountain" and "Wonderful Woman". "Troy Hands Rocks The Cradle" listed below includes on one cd all 18 titles and versions from the core and second section, plus a second version of "Pretty Girls Make Graves". However this bootleg is very scarce. The versions in the third section aka the 'remixed' versions are available on the internet.
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DavidA

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Post 02-Feb-2007 19:30 (after 3 hours)

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At the bottom of the first post.
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