1983 The Smiths Troy Tate Rare Mix (FLAC)

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robbo123 ®

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Post 01-Sep-2006 15:26

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THE SMITHS
Troy Tate Demos (Rare Mix)
Source: SBD > Cass > ? > DAT > M-Audio 24/96 > Adobe Audition > FLAC
01. Reel Around the Fountain
02. You've Got Everything Now
03. Miserable Lie
04. Pretty Girls Make Graves
05. Accept Yourself
06. The Hand that Rocks the Cradle
07. Handsome Devil
08. Wonderful Woman
09. Hand in Glove
10. What Difference Does It Make?
11. Jeanne
12. I Don't Owe You Anything
13. Suffer Little Children
Time: 53:11
Torrent created by RTR on 01 Sep 06.
As promised a while back, here's the Troy Tate rare mix. These are different from the common Troy Tate Sessions that are on about a dozen widely circulated bootlegs. About 6 of these tracks have shown up on a couple bootlegs (Wonderful Woman and Reel Around the Fountain). Here is the complete set of them that I acquired on DAT in a trade about 10 years ago.
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From Passionsjustlikemine.com:
The Troy Tate sessions are the scrapped 1983 recordings for the Smiths' debut album. Unsatisfied with the work of Troy Tate as a producer, the Smiths re-recorded their debut with producer John Porter. Unfinished versions of the shelved Tate recordings have been in circulation on various bootlegs. Most of them have two versions, some three, in circulation. Here is a rundown of the songs in circulation and a list of bootlegs that include them.
Most bootlegs include the same tracks, referred hereafter as the core. These are the best versions out there, the closest to releasable versions.
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 1)
- You've Got Everything Now (version 1)
- Miserable Lie (version 1)
- These Things Take Time (version 1)
- Wonderful Woman (version 1)
- Handsome Devil (version 1)
- Hand In Glove (version 1)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 1)
- I Don't Owe You Anything (version 1)
- Suffer Little Children (version 1)
- Pretty Girls Make Graves (version 1)
- Jeane (version 1)
The following tracks are found on fewer bootlegs
- Accept Yourself (version 1)
- The Hand That Rocks The Cradle (version 1)
- Miserable Lie (version 2)
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 2)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 2)
- Wonderful Woman (version 2)
These are available on the internet, but not on manufactured or widespread bootleg cd yet. They are labeled as 'remixed' but actually sound rougher than the versions from the core above.
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 3; perhaps same as version 2)
- You've Got Everything Now (version 2)
- Miserable Lie (version 3; perhaps same as version 2)
- The Hand That Rocks The Cradle (version 2; perhaps same as version 1)
- Wonderful Woman (version 3)
- Handsome Devil (version 2)
- Hand In Glove (version 2)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 2)
- I Don't Owe You Anything (version 2)
- Suffer Little Children (version 2)
- Pretty Girls Make Graves (version 2)
- Jeane (version 2)
In short, the completist will want any of the following bootlegs featuring the core described above (for example "The Cradle Snatchers" or "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle"), and will find the missing tracks from the second section on "Reel Around The Fountain" and "Wonderful Woman". "Troy Hands Rocks The Cradle" listed below includes on one cd all 18 titles and versions from the core and second section, plus a second version of "Pretty Girls Make Graves". However this bootleg is very scarce. The versions in the third section aka the 'remixed' versions are available on the internet.
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robbo123 ®

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Post 01-Sep-2006 16:04 (after 37 minutes)

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Oh yeah, this one goes out to Nigel. Thanks again for the Oink hookup!
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batnaMMV

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Post 01-Sep-2006 17:14 (after 1 hour 10 minutes)

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Your welcome Rob and cheers for this gem of an upload :D
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lazarus

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Post 01-Sep-2006 17:44 (after 29 minutes)

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Thanks. God you make me wonder what version of those TT sessions i had. (no idea!) :?
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traveller03

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Post 02-Sep-2006 04:17 (after 10 hours)

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This looks wonderful! Thank you :)
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DavidA

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Post 02-Sep-2006 19:25 (after 15 hours)

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Thanks for digging this out and seeding it Robbo. Another user has what might be *another* set of Troy Tate. When I've got my head around all these versions, I might try and create a definitive Troy Tate CD.
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SweetFA

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Post 03-Sep-2006 12:24 (after 16 hours)

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WOW! There are a few versions on here i've never heard before.
All the tracks except "Pretty Girls Make Graves" IMHO are different to the core versions which are speed-corrected on "Troy Tate Sessions".
Some of them are the alternative mixes on the "The Troy Hands Rock The Cradle" compilation available on here.
The recordings in this collection don't have any clicks on them so they've never been taken off vinyl at any point, the quality is very good.
I'm comparing this to what i'll refer to as the speed-corrected original "Troy Tate Sessions" bootleg versions and the alternative mixes and non-core tracks on the "The Troy Hands Rock The Cradle" compilation already available on here.
I'll ignore the ones at the wrong speed on the various bootlegs as they're just not that interesting to me, they're just the core Troy Tate Sessions recordings played back wrong!
Tracks 1 and 3 are the alternative Troy Tate takes which have been seeded on Troy Hands rather than the original speed-corrected versions available on Troy Tate Sessions.
Track 2 is definitely a different version to any of "You've got everything now" that i've heard - Morrissey's intonation was noticeably different from the start and it was confirmed by the extra bars at the end.
Track 4 sounds like the same version that was released as a b-side and is on the speed-corrected Troy Tate demos set.
It's also referred to as an alternative mix on Troy Hands but is just the same as the one which is played at the wrong speed in the core on the same compilation as far as i can tell!
If it is a different version and anyone can point me as to something different i'd be interested to know.
Track 5 and 6 sound like the previously available alternative mixes on Troy Hands.
Track 7 is a version of Handsome Devil i've never heard before, more echoey vocals and much smoother guitar than the previously released version on Troy Tate Sessions.
Track 8 is the alternative mix of Wonderful Woman off Troy Hands.
Track 9 is a different version of Hand In Glove to the previously released one, Morrissey's vocal is definitely different and the music is noticeably different at the end.
Track 10 is the alternative mix of What Difference Does It Make from Troy Hands with Morrissey doing lots of odd backing vocals throughout.
Track 11 is probably the same version of Jeane that was released as a b-side and is on Troy Hands. If this is a version 2 of the track then it certainly sounds remarkably like the b-side version to me, if anyone notices any difference let me know.
Track 12 sounds like it may be a new version of "I don't owe you anything", sounds slightly different no finger clicking i believe and a bit smoother. The "life is never kind" line is delivered differently.
Track 13 is a new version. It certainly has the bass guitar more prominant in the mix and the guitar lower in the mix than the core version on Troy Tate Sessions, it lacks the echoed line "you will never dream" that that version has. The woman laughing doesn't feature either. It ends with cymbals rather than the piano refrain off the core version.
So, in summary i think:
1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, and 11 are the alternate mixes or non-core tracks off Troy Hands
2, 7, 9, 12, 13 are new versions not on Troy Hands or Troy Tate Sessions
4 is the version of Pretty Girls Make Graves that is on Troy Tate Sessions and was released as a b-side. (It's the same as the alternate version on Troy Hands as well btw)
If you were to combine the Troy Tate Sessions bootleg with this one you'd have all the Troy Tate sessions tracks i've heard - Troy Hands would no longer be required unless you're interested in the core tracks played at the wrong speed which is how we'd heard them for a lot of years!
If anyone has any other thoughts i'd be very interested.
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robbo123 ®

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Post 03-Sep-2006 12:28 (after 3 minutes)

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SweetFA, that's a pretty good analysis. I've never sat down to compare the versions, but probably will now!
My personal feeling is that what we know as the "core" are probably either demos or rough mixes. I think this set, which seems more polished and better mixed is probably the "finished" Troy Tate album that the band rejected. Since these versions "Pretty Girls" and probably "Jeanne" were released officially, it seems ot back up that theory
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SweetFA

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Post 03-Sep-2006 13:29 (after 1 hour 1 minute)

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SweetFA, that's a pretty good analysis. I've never sat down to compare the versions, but probably will now!
My personal feeling is that what we know as the "core" are probably either demos or rough mixes. I think this set, which seems more polished and better mixed is probably the "finished" Troy Tate album that the band rejected. Since these versions "Pretty Girls" and probably "Jeanne" were released officially, it seems ot back up that theory
Quite possibly, an interesting idea.
It's certainly normal for a band to do more than one take of a song when recording an album, and the versions in this Rare Mix set are definitely different to the "core" ones ; it's not just that they've been copied better.
The "Troy Tate demos" is a misnomer anyway, they were never intended as demos ; as you say they were always intended to be the "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle" album and were scrapped because the group decided they sounded too much like demos.
I didn't listen to the "core" and "rare mix" versions simultaneously btw, i just have listened to the "core" versions often enough now to be able to spot the subtle differences!
I think it's quite amusing that what was referred to as "The Troy Tate demos" around 15 years ago on various bootlegs turned out to be at the wrong speed, it's good to now be in a position where we have 2 different sets of many of the songs that were recorded and they all play at the right speed.
Maybe one day we'll see an official release of all the tracks recorded with Troy Tate, then we'll know how many different completed versions of the songs there really is.
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DavidA

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Post 03-Sep-2006 13:34 (after 5 minutes)

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I too will do an analysis when I get a moment.
Lastgang, who made this post, told me he had a good set of unreleased Troy Tate sessions (which might be these) plus the Rough Trade demos.
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robbo123 ®

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Post 03-Sep-2006 14:04 (after 29 minutes)

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I too will do an analysis when I get a moment.
Lastgang, who made this post, told me he had a good set of unreleased Troy Tate sessions (which might be these) plus the Rough Trade demos.
After reading that post, I have the feeling that this set is the same as the alternative mix set that Lastgang is talking about. I too got these from a UK taperwho did most of the Smiths shows in circulation and had an inside connection with the band. Of course it would be nice to compare :wink:
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batnaMMV

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Post 03-Sep-2006 14:40 (after 36 minutes)

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SweetFA, that's a pretty good analysis. I've never sat down to compare the versions, but probably will now!
My personal feeling is that what we know as the "core" are probably either demos or rough mixes. I think this set, which seems more polished and better mixed is probably the "finished" Troy Tate album that the band rejected. Since these versions "Pretty Girls" and probably "Jeanne" were released officially, it seems ot back up that theory
Yes, I was also thinking along those lines. I read an interview with Simon Goddard a couple years ago where he said that what we know as the Troy Tate "core tracks" were unfinished versions and did not form the album the band eventually rejected.
Is there a version 2 of Jeane as all the ones I've heard seem identical to the released version? Same goes for Pretty Girls Make Graves I think.
I also agree with SweetFA's analysis that there are 5 new tracks, 2 official releases and the other 6 released on "Troy Hands" and/or "Reel Around The Fountain" and "Wonderful Woman" bootlegs.
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SweetFA

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Post 03-Sep-2006 15:10 (after 29 minutes)

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SweetFA, that's a pretty good analysis. I've never sat down to compare the versions, but probably will now!
My personal feeling is that what we know as the "core" are probably either demos or rough mixes. I think this set, which seems more polished and better mixed is probably the "finished" Troy Tate album that the band rejected. Since these versions "Pretty Girls" and probably "Jeanne" were released officially, it seems ot back up that theory
Yes, I was also thinking along those lines. I read an interview with Simon Goddard a couple years ago where he said that what we know as the Troy Tate "core tracks" were unfinished versions and did not form the album the band eventually rejected.
Is there a version 2 of Jeane as all the ones I've heard seem identical to the released version? Same goes for Pretty Girls Make Graves I think.
I also agree with SweetFA's analysis that there are 5 new tracks, 2 official releases and the other 6 released on "Troy Hands" and/or "Reel Around The Fountain" and "Wonderful Woman" bootlegs.
Great minds think alike eh?
Those Rough Trade demos are interesting that you added the torrent for btw.
I was listening to them at low volume very early this morning and thought they were just badly recorded copies of the Troy Tate versions but they're clearly not.
Bizarre that almost 20 years after the split new recordings that were previously unknown are still appearing.
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batnaMMV

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Post 03-Sep-2006 15:17 (after 7 minutes)

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I have wrote in the other thread that I believe most of the "Rough Trade Demos" I uploaded were poor quality versions of these rare mixes included in this torrent; bar 2 or 3 tracks which may be from elsewhere. I always knew they were not the "core" tracks, now this recording allows me to prove it!
David, are you referring to a different set of Rough Trade Demos to the ones I uploaded?
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SweetFA

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Post 03-Sep-2006 15:25 (after 8 minutes)

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I have wrote in the other thread that I believe most of the "Rough Trade Demos" I uploaded were poor quality versions of these rare mixes included in this torrent; bar 2 or 3 tracks which may be from elsewhere. I always knew they were not the "core" tracks, now this recording allows me to prove it!
David, are you referring to a different set of Rough Trade Demos to the ones I uploaded?
I actually think the Rough Trade Demos may be raw copies of the "core" without any overdubs.
I've posted that in the other thread, see what you think.
They certainly sound more like the "core" than the rare mixes to me.
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