The Troy Hands Rocks The Cradle - Troy Tate Sessions

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batnaMMV

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Post 05-May-2006 11:45

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Just to get this straight: if I burn up a kind of "Troy Hands Rocks the Cradle - Remastered" using the 12 "core" tracks at the correct speed from the "Troy Tate Sessions" bootleg torrented here, and the remaining tracks from the "Troy Hands Rocks the Cradle" torrent, like this…
From “Troy Tate Sessions” bootleg:
01 Reel Around The Fountain
02 You've Got Everything Now
03 Miserable Lie
04 These Things Take Time
05 Wonderful Woman
06 Handsome Devil
07 Suffer Little Children
08 Pretty Girls Make Graves
09 Hand In Glove
10 What Difference Does It Make?
11 I Don't Owe You Anything
12 Jeane
From “Troy Hands Rocks the Cradle” bootleg:
13 Accept Yourself
14 The Hand That Rocks The Cradle
15 Miserable Lie (Alternative Mix)
16 Pretty Girls Make Graves (Alternative Mix)
17 Reel Around The Fountain (Alternative Mix)
18 What Difference Does It Make? (Alternative Mix)
19 Wonderful Woman (Alternative Mix)
…then will everything be running at the correct speed?
Yes, please do so, that would be the best CD from the tracks we have collected so far.
I hope you enjoyed 'The Troy Tate Sessions', although any upgrades from this would be appreciated :wink:
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SweetFA

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Post 29-May-2006 09:25 (after 23 days)

[Quote]

I think the Alternative Mix of Pretty Girls Make Graves is exactly the same as track 8 of Troy Tate Sessions, i think they're both the version that appeared as a b-side.
Has anyone else got suspicions that any of the other Alternative Mixes are the 'core' versions played at the correct speed - ie the same as Troy Tate Sessions?
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lastgang

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Post 02-Aug-2006 23:26 (after 2 months 4 days)

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The remixed version of Troy Tate demos originated from the guys who filmed and taped most of the shows that you are enjoying now. They were also responsible for putting out the Hacienda video some years back. They also filmed all of the shows currently in circulation including a very rare may 1983 15 minute snippet from London ULU. The word remix is a little misleading and probably stems from my putting them on napster as that and again on soulseek. They are in fact an alternate mix to the hand that rocks the cradle demos that first appeared in 1991-2 and on a vinyl lp of the same name. Incidently, the lp is the best sounding version of troy tate demos. There are another set of recordings that are called rough trade demos-these are yet another version of troy tate recordings. The story of the tapes origin is that the guys started to bootleg the band very early on in their career and got friendly with some of the smiths roadies. These roadies in turn got them the Hacienda video (which if you notice has a Factory Records FAC #-which suggests that they were actually considering signing with Mr. Wilson) and also copies of the Troy Tate Hands Demos and also the alternate version. They were also resonsible for the rough trade demos that circulated for a while. My friend Graeme and I tracked down these two tapers/filmers in early 1991. As a favour to us -one of the guys let us have copies of hacienda and troy tate full version and alternate ( i also have 2 c90 cassettes of interviews Nick Kent did for the Face magazine with Morrisssey/Marr ). I also got first gen copies of all the tapes these guys made-including videos. However, to cut a long story short-fearing that we would make these tapes available and therefore minimizing their $ value the troy tate alternate versions were released in part on cd and the hacienda video falso finally saw the light of day shortly after in 1992.
Hope this clears up some confusion surrounding the different mixes of the same songs. : :D
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DavidA

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Post 03-Aug-2006 18:51 (after 19 hours)

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Lastgang, a great post but I think I'm confused again. Here's Stephane's notes.
The Troy Tate sessions are the scrapped 1983 recordings for the Smiths' debut
album. Unsatisfied with the work of Troy Tate as a producer, the Smiths
re-recorded their debut with producer John Porter. Unfinished versions of the
shelved Tate recordings have been in circulation on various bootlegs. Most of
them have two versions, some three, in circulation. Here is a rundown of the
songs in circulation and a list of bootlegs that include them.
Most bootlegs include the same tracks, referred hereafter as the core. These
are the best versions out there, the closest to releasable versions.
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 1)
- You've Got Everything Now (version 1)
- Miserable Lie (version 1)
- These Things Take Time (version 1)
- Wonderful Woman (version 1)
- Handsome Devil (version 1)
- Hand In Glove (version 1)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 1)
- I Don't Owe You Anything (version 1)
- Suffer Little Children (version 1)
- Pretty Girls Make Graves (version 1)
- Jeane (version 1)
The following tracks are found on fewer bootlegs
- Accept Yourself (version 1)
- The Hand That Rocks The Cradle (version 1)
- Miserable Lie (version 2)
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 2)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 2)
- Wonderful Woman (version 2)
These are available on the internet, but not on manufactured or widespread
bootleg cd yet. They are labeled as 'remixed' but actually sound rougher than
the versions from the core above.
- Reel Around The Fountain (version 3; perhaps same as version 2)
- You've Got Everything Now (version 2)
- Miserable Lie (version 3; perhaps same as version 2)
- The Hand That Rocks The Cradle (version 2; perhaps same as version 1)
- Wonderful Woman (version 3)
- Handsome Devil (version 2)
- Hand In Glove (version 2)
- What Difference Does It Make? (version 2)
- I Don't Owe You Anything (version 2)
- Suffer Little Children (version 2)
- Pretty Girls Make Graves (version 2)
- Jeane (version 2)
In short, the completist will want any of the following bootlegs featuring the
core described above (for example "The Cradle Snatchers" or "The Hand That
Rocks The Cradle"), and will find the missing tracks from the second section on
"Reel Around The Fountain" and "Wonderful Woman". "Troy Hands Rocks The
Cradle" listed below includes on one cd all 18 titles and versions from the
core and second section, plus a second version of "Pretty Girls Make Graves".
However this bootleg is very scarce. The versions in the third section aka the
'remixed' versions are available on the internet.

I think I know the individuals you speak of, but I'll preserve their anonimity.
1) I have The Hand That Rocks The Cradle on LP. I'll re-record that some point soon. You're saying that these are the 'core' tracks?
2) You're saying that the Troy Hands (which Stephane labels as 'fewer') and Alternate (which showed up as MP3 as 'remixed') are the two other sets and came from roadies?
3) You're saying that there's a set of Rough Trade demos circulating? This is amazing. I've never heard of these.
Of course, having given this kind of information I want access to your stash of rarities. I have the Core tracks in great quality, Fewer tracks in less good quality, Alternate in rubbish quality and none of the Rough Trade demos. Can you do any upgrades? Do you still have the Nick Kent interviews?
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DavidA

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Post 10-Sep-2006 20:59 (after 1 month 7 days)

[Quote]

If anyone has any more thoughts about this, please add them to this message. Thanks!
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Stubs

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Post 07-Feb-2007 22:03 (after 4 months 27 days)

[Quote]

Hi akiraware,
I'd like to thank you for this wonderful torrent ... i've been lokking for this "missing longplayer" for quite a long time ... but I never mangaged to get it ...
For me some of the tracks are the even better versions of the songs ... John Porter did a quite good job on the first SMITHS-LP ... but Troy Tate did a good job before ...
Maybe sometimes he will get his place in a very special "Smiths-Hall-Of-Fame" for this ...
Greetings from Germany
Stübi
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DavidA

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Post 07-Feb-2007 23:18 (after 1 hour 15 minutes)

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Stubs, don't forget that the remainder of the 2nd set of Troy Tate tracks can be found here.
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Stubs

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Post 09-Feb-2007 09:55 (after 1 day 10 hours)

[Quote]

Hi David,
thanks for that advise ... I found it ... but it doesn't work for me ...
My Computer doesn't seem to like it ... or he is just looking for the tracker ...
I'll try again ...
Greetings
Stubs
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guidedbyvoices

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Post 30-Jan-2009 02:59 (after 1 year 11 months)

[Quote]

could someone seed for me please?
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SweetFA

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Post 30-Jan-2009 07:10 (after 4 hours)

[Quote]

Superceded by this
http://smithstorrents.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=139
and this
http://smithstorrents.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=435
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guidedbyvoices

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Post 30-Jan-2009 17:46 (after 10 hours)

[Quote]

thanks for the tip for the new guy! its a bit confusing trying to sort out the tate stuff.
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SweetFA

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Post 30-Jan-2009 20:24 (after 2 hours 37 minutes)

[Quote]

thanks for the tip for the new guy! its a bit confusing trying to sort out the tate stuff.
Happy to help.
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egosheep

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Post 30-Jun-2009 22:12 (after 5 months)

[Quote]

Any seeds?
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SweetFA

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Post 30-Jun-2009 22:41 (after 29 minutes)

[Quote]

Any seeds?
You've got the tracks already on the Sign Here bootleg, they are exactly the same iirc.
They're also here with the speed corrected:
http://smithstorrents.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=139
If you want something different to what you've already got then download these:
http://smithstorrents.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2608
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anovella

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Post 31-Dec-2009 00:31 (after 6 months)

[Quote]

thanks, please Seed!
Thanks in Advance!
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